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	<title>Comments on: Tick prevention: cost versus benefit</title>
	<atom:link href="http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/</link>
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		<title>By: Kerry Shqrman</title>
		<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-6758</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry Shqrman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 11:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://communityvet.net/?p=2070#comment-6758</guid>
		<description>An excellent and comprehensive article that presents a balanced viewpoint on tick and flea prevention.Thanks so much for an easy to understand report. Will be book-marking for future reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An excellent and comprehensive article that presents a balanced viewpoint on tick and flea prevention.Thanks so much for an easy to understand report. Will be book-marking for future reference.</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-3064</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:16:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://communityvet.net/?p=2070#comment-3064</guid>
		<description>Long haired cats present  2 problems:
1. their coat makes manual tick searches less effective. There is simply more hair to hide amongst.
2. The greater the coat surface area, the more topical insecticide required to acheive toxic levels throughout. Its hard to get frontline spray deep down into the coat or on skin with a thick persian.

Both these factors will tend to make long haired cats and dogs of greater risk of tick paralysis. Ticks are part of the spider family, and they climb, or are carried on animals up into trees. They dont fly on the wind with web like other spiders, but they will drop on humans  and animals from above ( personal experience with this). 

I havent encountered a frontline spray failure but, to be honest, the all over spray isnt used very commonly, so it&#039;s hard to say.

Sorry to hear of your loss. It understandably adds to your frustration surrounding tick prevention.

cheers
m</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Long haired cats present  2 problems:<br />
1. their coat makes manual tick searches less effective. There is simply more hair to hide amongst.<br />
2. The greater the coat surface area, the more topical insecticide required to acheive toxic levels throughout. Its hard to get frontline spray deep down into the coat or on skin with a thick persian.</p>
<p>Both these factors will tend to make long haired cats and dogs of greater risk of tick paralysis. Ticks are part of the spider family, and they climb, or are carried on animals up into trees. They dont fly on the wind with web like other spiders, but they will drop on humans  and animals from above ( personal experience with this). </p>
<p>I havent encountered a frontline spray failure but, to be honest, the all over spray isnt used very commonly, so it&#8217;s hard to say.</p>
<p>Sorry to hear of your loss. It understandably adds to your frustration surrounding tick prevention.</p>
<p>cheers<br />
m</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-3063</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Jan 2011 10:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://communityvet.net/?p=2070#comment-3063</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for the extra info Matt - all VERY interesting. I had no idea how toxic some of these chemicals are, which was very naive of me. I see you have mentioned long-haired cats a few times, are they less prone to ticks attaching? If so, my persian cat is very unlucky as she&#039;s had tick poisoning twice now (the second time she was being dosed fortnightly with Frontline Plus). She is now a strictly indoor cat.

Someone told me that ticks can &#039;float in the breeze&#039; so even a cat on an enclosed balcony is at risk. Does this sound plausible to you?!

Have you ever encounted a dog or cat with tick poisoning who had been correctly dosed with Frontline Spray? 

Sorry for all the questions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for the extra info Matt &#8211; all VERY interesting. I had no idea how toxic some of these chemicals are, which was very naive of me. I see you have mentioned long-haired cats a few times, are they less prone to ticks attaching? If so, my persian cat is very unlucky as she&#8217;s had tick poisoning twice now (the second time she was being dosed fortnightly with Frontline Plus). She is now a strictly indoor cat.</p>
<p>Someone told me that ticks can &#8216;float in the breeze&#8217; so even a cat on an enclosed balcony is at risk. Does this sound plausible to you?!</p>
<p>Have you ever encounted a dog or cat with tick poisoning who had been correctly dosed with Frontline Spray? </p>
<p>Sorry for all the questions!</p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-2854</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 04:14:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://communityvet.net/?p=2070#comment-2854</guid>
		<description>hi jess, you dont have to apologise, happy to stand corrected. 

i moved this comment to this post as its probably more appropriate here. Many this season would  contend that frontline top spot and even advantix applied fortightly is also ineffective in dogs. I can think of three recent cases of tick paralysis in dogs on which owners dutifully applied these preventatives on time.

Yes, proban is not good for cats, sometimes in the short, and always in the long term. But some owners are forced to balance risk. If their cat is a long haired, hands-off farm cat, that wont tolerate full body spray without sedation. Proban may  stave off a fatal case of tick paralysis, and buy some good quality life before hepatotoxicity kicks in.

During the 90&#039;s cythioate/proban was more commonly used in cats and i would comment:
I guesstimate I&#039;ve encountered at least 20 cats recieving over the years.

Rarely were they vet initiated.

Many were owners who had lost a cat or suffered near fatal tick incidents and viewed it as the pragmatic answer to &#039;better of two evils&#039; dilemma.

I havent observed a case of proban failure in a cat.

The only ADR was one cat that was transiently inappetant and returned to good health on discontination. There are undoubtedly more catastrophic misadventures than this, as there are for NSAIDs etc.

This is, of course, all still anecdotal but it adds depth to the debate.

On a side track, in terms of toxicity, advantix aint so good either. Recently i did repeated liver profiles on 2 border collies at induction of fortnightly advantix, on owners request. Female , aged 6, and male 6months, zero and 6 weeks. While the juvenile had no significant changes; the ALT increased from 32 to 154 in the older bitch. Results below.

I could not reassure the client that, although such changes didnt represent any immediate threat to the dogs welfare, there would not be secondary pathology and/or insufficiency in the long term.

Her last dog died of liver neoplasia after years of religious flea and tick control and she blames herself to some degree. In her case, I would agree, proban and collars should be ruled out, probably advantix, leaving only fipronyl. Given its recent failure rate, that choice may run the risk of life threatening tick paralysis.

what to do?

Pre advantix

VETNOSTICS COMMENT 
  No significant changes. Dr Brett Stone
   
VETNOSTICS 
   SERUM CHEMISTRY 
   Bilirubin                          2   umol/L        (0-10)
   ALT                               32   U/L           (0-80)
   GGT                              &lt; 5   U/L           (0-5)
   Alkaline Phosphatase            &lt; 10   U/L           (1-120)
   Protein                           65   g/L           (55-78)
   Albumin                           37   g/L           (22-36)
   Globulin                          28   g/L           (25-40)
   Albumin/Globulin Ratio           1.3


Post 3 fortnightly advantix

 VETNOSTICS COMMENT 
  Mild hepatopathy. Dr Brett Stone
 
  VETNOSTICS 
   SERUM CHEMISTRY 
   Bilirubin                        &lt; 2   umol/L        (0-10)
   ALT                              154   U/L           (0-80)
   GGT                              &lt; 5   U/L           (0-5)
   Alkaline Phosphatase              14   U/L           (1-120)
   Protein                           61   g/L           (55-78)
   Albumin                           36   g/L           (22-36)
   Globulin                          25   g/L           (25-40)
   Albumin/Globulin Ratio           1.4
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi jess, you dont have to apologise, happy to stand corrected. </p>
<p>i moved this comment to this post as its probably more appropriate here. Many this season would  contend that frontline top spot and even advantix applied fortightly is also ineffective in dogs. I can think of three recent cases of tick paralysis in dogs on which owners dutifully applied these preventatives on time.</p>
<p>Yes, proban is not good for cats, sometimes in the short, and always in the long term. But some owners are forced to balance risk. If their cat is a long haired, hands-off farm cat, that wont tolerate full body spray without sedation. Proban may  stave off a fatal case of tick paralysis, and buy some good quality life before hepatotoxicity kicks in.</p>
<p>During the 90&#8242;s cythioate/proban was more commonly used in cats and i would comment:<br />
I guesstimate I&#8217;ve encountered at least 20 cats recieving over the years.</p>
<p>Rarely were they vet initiated.</p>
<p>Many were owners who had lost a cat or suffered near fatal tick incidents and viewed it as the pragmatic answer to &#8216;better of two evils&#8217; dilemma.</p>
<p>I havent observed a case of proban failure in a cat.</p>
<p>The only ADR was one cat that was transiently inappetant and returned to good health on discontination. There are undoubtedly more catastrophic misadventures than this, as there are for NSAIDs etc.</p>
<p>This is, of course, all still anecdotal but it adds depth to the debate.</p>
<p>On a side track, in terms of toxicity, advantix aint so good either. Recently i did repeated liver profiles on 2 border collies at induction of fortnightly advantix, on owners request. Female , aged 6, and male 6months, zero and 6 weeks. While the juvenile had no significant changes; the ALT increased from 32 to 154 in the older bitch. Results below.</p>
<p>I could not reassure the client that, although such changes didnt represent any immediate threat to the dogs welfare, there would not be secondary pathology and/or insufficiency in the long term.</p>
<p>Her last dog died of liver neoplasia after years of religious flea and tick control and she blames herself to some degree. In her case, I would agree, proban and collars should be ruled out, probably advantix, leaving only fipronyl. Given its recent failure rate, that choice may run the risk of life threatening tick paralysis.</p>
<p>what to do?</p>
<p>Pre advantix</p>
<p>VETNOSTICS COMMENT<br />
  No significant changes. Dr Brett Stone</p>
<p>VETNOSTICS<br />
   SERUM CHEMISTRY<br />
   Bilirubin                          2   umol/L        (0-10)<br />
   ALT                               32   U/L           (0-80)<br />
   GGT                              < 5   U/L           (0-5)<br />
   Alkaline Phosphatase            < 10   U/L           (1-120)<br />
   Protein                           65   g/L           (55-78)<br />
   Albumin                           37   g/L           (22-36)<br />
   Globulin                          28   g/L           (25-40)<br />
   Albumin/Globulin Ratio           1.3</p>
<p>Post 3 fortnightly advantix</p>
<p> VETNOSTICS COMMENT<br />
  Mild hepatopathy. Dr Brett Stone</p>
<p>  VETNOSTICS<br />
   SERUM CHEMISTRY<br />
   Bilirubin                        < 2   umol/L        (0-10)<br />
   ALT                              154   U/L           (0-80)<br />
   GGT                              < 5   U/L           (0-5)<br />
   Alkaline Phosphatase              14   U/L           (1-120)<br />
   Protein                           61   g/L           (55-78)<br />
   Albumin                           36   g/L           (22-36)<br />
   Globulin                          25   g/L           (25-40)<br />
   Albumin/Globulin Ratio           1.4</p>
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		<title>By: jessica</title>
		<link>http://communityvet.net/2010/02/tick-prevention-options-costs-and-drawbacks/comment-page-1/#comment-2853</link>
		<dc:creator>jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Jan 2011 03:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://communityvet.net/?p=2070#comment-2853</guid>
		<description>I’m sorry Matt but you are incorrect regarding tick prevention in cats. Currently the only approved tick prevention method for cats in Australia is Frontline Spray, applied to the cat every 3 weeks (and by applied I mean sprayed all over the cat and left to dry). Frontline Plus Spot-On, used every 2 weeks, is no longer recommended by the manufacturers for tick prevention in cats and Proban should definitely not be used. (As a side note, I have personal experience with fortnightly Frontline Spot-On use not being effective against ticks on cats).

Please feel free to confirm what I’ve said with Merial (makers of Frontline) and the Australian Veterinary Assosciation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m sorry Matt but you are incorrect regarding tick prevention in cats. Currently the only approved tick prevention method for cats in Australia is Frontline Spray, applied to the cat every 3 weeks (and by applied I mean sprayed all over the cat and left to dry). Frontline Plus Spot-On, used every 2 weeks, is no longer recommended by the manufacturers for tick prevention in cats and Proban should definitely not be used. (As a side note, I have personal experience with fortnightly Frontline Spot-On use not being effective against ticks on cats).</p>
<p>Please feel free to confirm what I’ve said with Merial (makers of Frontline) and the Australian Veterinary Assosciation.</p>
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